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Guest Egocentrik1

Bruce Lee (1940-1973)

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Guest fabhui
Hei fabhui, I found info on the Wong Jack Man fight

Yeah, I've read that article a couple of times now. Who really knows the exact truth of what happened, I do know that Brue's, Linda's and James Lee's recollections of the fight were all pretty much similar, whereas Wong Jack Man's and William Chen's have numerous discrepancies between them.

One thing I do like from that article is the following and I quote...

Wong says that before the fight began Lee remarked, in reference to a mutual acquaintance who had helped instigate the match, "You’ve been killed by your friend."

Now that is a line that would work a treat in a Kung fu movie!

8)

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Guest Le Peril Jaune
There's nothing honourable about a street fight! If your training is reality based this is how you react, if your training isn't reality based then you will at best get battered at worst be left dead in the gutter.

NOBODY who is right in the head kicks an unconcious man.

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Guest thundered mantis

Le Peril Jaune, probably Bruce had already begun the kick movement when the other guy dropped.

I see similar things happening on boxing matches; many times boxers who are "knock out on their feet" end up eating one or two extra punches. The other fighter is superfocused in the fight, and it´s dificult at times for them to correctly picture the whole situation, with all the focus and adrenalin going, they just see the opening to another punch.

Martial arts wise, it´s impossible to tell, but charisma wise, I think Bruce has never been matched. I have just remembered the "semifight" he had with Sammo. Sammo tells they just met on a Golden Harvest set. And suddenly Sammo was knocked down. He didn´t ever see it coming! I don´t remember what DVD interview was he told that. Also Lau Ka Leung praised Bruce Lee athleticism in a cahiers du cinema interview. He also said Bruce was westerner in nature, when fightin´everybody avoided full force (givin´face and all that stuff), but Bruce held no punches! :lol

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Guest stormybman

Le P., exactly what are you getting at? This thread about the best hasn't really been specified, or narrowed down to the best at what, however, for his time Lee was the best at what he became famous for... Martial expertise, demonstrated on film, in an industry at that time in need of someone to launch them in the direction that it ended up following. The man broke new ground in theoretical applications to the physical arts, pioneered training methods for centuries old techniques, and went from being another guy to hero to masses worldwide in a couple of years. That's quite enough there, and i've not even gone into detail.

Whether you like him or not, his contributions to the MA world can not be overlooked, and none of the actors, true Martial Artists or not, who've followed, could hold a candle to his fame or infamy and would die for a smidget of the acknowledgements he recieves 30+ yrs. after his death.

"Ya Feel me, fool?!":hat

Bruce_Lee.jpg

"Do we fight alone...?, Or all together?!"

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Guest edher08

Well, When i saw this thread, i assumed that it was about Bruce Lee being the overall Best. If he scored high points on every aspect of martial arts filmmaking, like carisma, acting, skill, coreography, etc....

I respect Bruce Lee, and if 34 years after his dead we are STILL talking about him, watching his movies, quoting his lines, then that means something, right??

He's the martial arts Icon, loving or hating, you just can't change that.

Personally, i don't hate Bruce Lee, in fact, im a fan, but a fan of Bruce lee the man, not the myth. Maybe the people who hate Bruce Lee, don't really hate HIM, they hate the myths, the lies, the unproven stories about him, the blinded Fans who thinks that he was untouchable and refuse to see him as what he was, just a man who did more than the rest.

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Guest justkungfuman
This thread about the best hasn't really been specified, or narrowed down to the best at what??

Sorry!

How about;

Fighter ?

Kung Fu Actor ?

I learn most that I know about Bruce Lee, here on the forum.

Most have heard for years that Bruce Lee was the best here on the forum most know other wise..

Growing up as a Kid I would of said yes he is the best fighter and or Kung Fu Actor, simply because of reputation. Grown up I know other wise. Most still think he was the best because of not being schooled into the truth...

Thought it would make for a good topic of discussion

Thanks for your responses.

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Guest kungfusamurai

Bruce was foremost the best salesperson. He sold himself the best, he sold his fights the best, he got HK kung fu films out there on the world stage, even though Five Fingers of Death was the first to be screened in the US, and he pushed the quality of the kung fu cinema to higher limits. He also was the best at getting better pay, not being suckered into working as a slave for the Shaw Bros.

As for his fighting ability, most of the on screen fighters who were coming up in the industry back in Bruce's day still speak highly of him and are still in awe of his abilities. I think the traditional chinese martial artists who had to deal with Bruce's iconoclastic approach to fighting will continue to spit on his grave.

Bruce wasn't a tournament fighter. But he did work hard to improve upon the fighting skill, to make it more efficient and to maximize output. Hence is ability to kick and punch with extreme force.

If there was something like UFC in his day, and he didn't feel he could ruin his film career by participating in such a tournament, I think he would have done well. He probably would have been champion many times over.

I've been watching those George Tan docs which interview his former collegues and students. Bruce was a bit of a contradiction. On the one hand, they said he liked to show off in public and get attention; but on the other hand, he didn't like having to deal with challengers all the time. Ko Fei in one interview even suggested Bruce was carrying a gun for his protection!

In the end, Bruce was a flame that burned very brightly and burned itself out too soon. He will continue to be a man of myth, and I imagine in a 100 years time he will be up there along with mythical figures in chinese culture like shaolin students Fong Sai Yuk and Hong Sze Kwan; the Ten Tigers of Kwangtung; and Wong Fei Hong.

KFS

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Guest Markgway

Bruce was an enigma.

We'll never know truly how good he was.

But all I know is that I wouldn't wanna @#%$ with him.

:hat

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Guest Yakuza954

vengeanceofhumanlanterns, though Ken Takakura has been rumored to have Yakuza connections like a lot of other Japanese actors, I don't think Chan Wei Man was asserting that Takakura is a Yakuza in the interview. He was simply saying he was the most popular Yakuza actor back in the day.

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Guest dager in the cotton

there is no best as its too abstract , its not like running the 100 meters, but i did a study to see who would be best judging by overall skill,strength, fighting asbilty, weapons, acrobatics, box office, chrasima ect

Jackie chan, Wong Jing lee, Kuo Chue and Sun Rong Jye

came out on top.

Bruce was in the top third,

it was like this:

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Guest VonHumboldtFleischer

It's true that there's no real criteria to judge who's "the best". It always comes down to personal preference. It's important to look at the individual's body of work, and in Bruce Lee's case this isn't too impressive. Two decent kung fu movies with plenty of scraps, THE BIG BOSS (which I quite like) and FIST OF FURY (which I like a little less), followed by a clumsy vanity project, WAY OF THE DRAGON, clogged up with bad acting, bad comedy, and artless direction (big props to Bruce Lee for managing to make Lo Wei look like Orson Welles by comparison) and ENTER THE DRAGON, a piss-poor James Bond knockoff rescued from pitiful mediocrity by a decent supporting cast.

In every case, Bruce Lee is made to look good by being pitted against hopelessly incompetent, elderly, handicapped, and (if you'll forgive the inverted racism) caucasian villains, very few of whom come off well. Sammo Hung is forced to fight at about a twentieth of his usual ability so as to make Bruce look good; Bob Wall staggers around like a sweaty, drunken warthog; Han Yin-Chieh looks like he wants to be at home in his comfortable chair with a mug of Ovaltine and a little tartan blanket over his knees; Shieh Kien is an antiquated geezer with one hand; Bolo does little more than clench his fists and make his nipples dance; and so on...

Fortunately for Bruce Lee, he passed away just when the Western world was getting all excited about him (which is more responsible for his 'icon' status than anything he actually accomplished), and consequently has had a halo of wasted potential hovering over him. He's definitely the only martial arts movie star who gets as much respect for the films he might have made as for the none-too-impressive handful he actually did.

As for Bruce Lee's accomplishments in the martial arts world, I've already said I don't feel qualified to comment. I'm sure kicking people in the face is terribly exciting, although it's hard for me to be as impressed by that now the ravages of puberty are over. However, it does occur to me that it's possible that in order for Bruce Lee to be the best at a martial art, he had to invent one himself. Impressive.

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Guest Markgway
Fortunately for Bruce Lee, he passed away just when the Western world was getting all excited about him

Yeah, he was so lucky to have died young!! :rolleyes

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Guest VonHumboldtFleischer

Well, fortunately for his memory... after a few pretentious exercises in navel-gazing a la THE SILENT FLUTE, the general public would have got tired of him and right about now he'd be paying the rent with James Hong-style cameos in bad American movies that go straight to DVD with the words "National" and "Lampoon" in the title.

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Guest greenbamboo

yep depends on what you're preferences are. I regard Way of the Dragon as Lee's best on screen fights but that's cuz the last 3 fights are more realistic out of all his films (Wall, In Sik, Norris). No trampoline jumps and unrealistic shite like that. Bruce didn't dance, he closed the gap and finished the opponents quickly. Some like that style of fighting, others hate it. But many still regard his fight v Norris as the ultimate onscreen battle. I like the earlier Bob Wall scene in Way of the Dragon - he really kicks his ass good style. No camera tricks. When he intercepts their first move that his top fighting skill in action :)

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Guest Chinatown Kid

Way of the Dragon happens to be my favorite Lee film. I liked the fish out of water story of the country bumkin coming to the big city of Rome and showing up the gangsters. It's true the Cantonese comedy didn't translate well to western audiences but in HK I'm sure they found it hilarious. Bruce intended Way for a Chinese audience and never had intentions of releasing it in the States but after ETD's success and Lee's passing, it was. What really makes Way my favorite though are the fight scenes, Lee is incredibly fluid and direct with that lightning like speed. The Bruce vs Chuck fight is one of my all time favorite fight scenes, it's alive and real looking and doesn't look like a choreographed dance. It's fights like that that put Bruce way ahead of his time.

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Guest vengeanceofhumanlanterns
The Japanese mafia have a certain haircut, and the extras we got didn't look right, so we went out and got real yakuza members! We had no choice. You know who is Takakura Ken? He was the top Japanese gangster star He made a film with Robert Mitchum called The Yakuza.

Yakuza954, I don't know, it kinda looks like he is making that assertion. I thought I had heard of that elsewhere, that Takakura Ken was a real life yakuza. I could be wrong.

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Guest Yakuza954

He mentioned Ken Takakura because he was known as HK's Ken Takakura. I've heard people say the same stuff about Chow Yun Fat. The comment about real life yakuza was directed toward the actors used in Carry on Yakuza, not Takakura.

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Guest VonHumboldtFleischer
Way of the Dragon happens to be my favorite Lee film. I liked the fish out of water story of the country bumkin coming to the big city of Rome and showing up the gangsters. It's true the Cantonese comedy didn't translate well to western audiences but in HK I'm sure they found it hilarious.

I like Cantonese comedy a lot myself. Richard Ng, the Hui brothers, and of course Sammo and Jackie. When I was younger I found the broad, unsophisticated, lavatorial humour a little embarrassing, but my sense of humour seems to be regressing with age.

The difference is, Bruce Lee is not funny.

At all.

It's true that the fights in WOD are much closer to displays of real martial arts than anything Lee had attempted before; and there's no disputing Whang In Sik's extraordinary skills. But for someone who isn't actually interested in real martial arts, these more 'realistic' fights aren't all that much fun to watch.

Thanks, by the way, for posting that Chan Wei Man interview. I particularly liked the bit about Bolo swimming from China to Hong Kong!

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Guest venom10463

Bruce Lee was the best in my opinion. He exposed Chinese kung fu to western audiences in awhole another level. In most interviews I've read, everybody have nothing but good things to say about the man. If Bruce was still alive, he would have been an even bigger star then he was in the 70's.

By the way, that Chan Wai Man interview was really good. I liked the bit of info on Hwang Jang Lee. He's one cocky S.O.B, hopefully he doesn't have that kind of mentality anymore.

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Guest pressureworld
NOBODY who is right in the head kicks an unconcious man.

Like the man said theres nothing honorable about a street fight when grown men fight it isn't a movie or a game

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Guest Chia Ling AKA Judy Lee
Like the man said theres nothing honorable about a street fight when grown men fight it isn't a movie or a game

What's the chances of Bruce Lee getting himself into a 'street fight' with a high ranking dan grade Japanese Karateka in a YMCA handball court?

Sounds more like an arranged match, in a gym? Seems like you guys treat life like a movie or game, thinking 'grown men' beating each other up is cool or macho. It's not, it's a pretty pathetic. If your life is on the line then fine.

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Guest TheDrunkenRabbit

The Best? Ha, there is no best,. Was Musashi Miyamoto the best? Was Mas Oyama the best? If Ghengis kahn was walking down the street in modern day with a polo shirt and jeans buying a hot dog, could you bitch smack him? Probably yes, but in his time you wouldn’t have the balls! If Mussashi kept fighting on and on probability or old age would have eventually cut him. Is Rocky Marciano the best? Hell yea he was undefeated then retired and now he’s dead, but it wont do any good convincing him to come back to life for your fantasy rematch because he already lives forever just like Bruce Lee. Oyama could have probably punch a hole into Lee, or not, if lee is really fast enough to evade it. What is fact is that Lee was good enough to impress millions and he had charisma and was creative. Bruce might rank a 5 in intimidation weather he is better than his opponent or not you can bet your ass they were intimidated even if they themselves are great. It’s easy to talk about the man when he is dead, remember Bruce was still growing or evolving just as you or me. We really don’t know how much a better actor, fighter, philosopher and director he would have become given a full life, we can only speculate. It is unfair to grade him on his acting and personality and so on when he practically was a kid next to some of the great old masters when he died. People get wiser as they age. Dan Inosanto told me himself (together with some classmates when we asked) Bruce was cocky and mouthy when they first met but later became more philosophical. Wong Jack Man is still a great martial artist regardless of the outcome between him and Bruce Lee. He could have very well remached Bruce Lee a few times, and both fighters would improve every time, also exposing weaknesses as well, it’s all about the moves you make in combat (like Chess literally) and there is no rules in using the human weapon. Bruce can fight a hundred men and win, he is the best then in a hundred fights, but can loose in a hundred and one. Dose this now mean he is not the best? Probability now takes over. If one thing is for sure, it was that he tried to be the best at what he did and for that he shall live forever.

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Guest Markgway

Look, I could kick Bruce Lee's ass and Chuck Norris' ass at the same time, blindfolded and handcuffed to a goat.

Case closed. :smokin

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Guest fabhui
What's the chances of Bruce Lee getting himself into a 'street fight' with a high ranking dan grade Japanese Karateka in a YMCA handball court?

There's a lot more background to it than that! I suggest you read Jesse Glover's book 'Bruce Lee Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do' for how it all came about.

Seems like you guys treat life like a movie or game, thinking 'grown men' beating each other up is cool or macho.

I'm not quite sure how you came to that conclusion. I worked for many years where actual physical confrontations happened more times than I care to remember. I think real life violence is scary, dangerous and ugly, I know because I have been involved in situations many, many times which isn't something I'm proud, ashamed or boastful of, it is just reality.

It's very easy for people to have an opinion on things like this when they haven't experienced it for themselves, in which case their opinions don't count for much as far as I'm concerned.

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Guest stormybman
It's easy for people to have an opinion on things like this when they haven't experienced it for themselves, in which case their opinion doesn't count for much, as far as i'm concerned

YOU ARE SO RIGHT, Fab. ! 8) !!!!!

"You have offended my family... and, you have offended The Shaolin Temple!"

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