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Linn1

READ BEFORE YOU TRADE-Sellers and traders to avoid.

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Guest Markgway
Okay I think I'll take Ozzieny's side on this one.

It's not about taking sides. Who said you had to? If your trade with Oscar went well then that's great. I don't think that's anymore relevant than what Vlade posted about me. Because you've not traded with either myself or Beardy I don't see how you can take sides at all.

BUT.. I do think a GOOD trader would've informed the other recipient about the quality. When you put 3 movies on 1 disc, it'll always hurt the quality..

1. Oscar never asked. If he had I would have told him. Oscar also sent me two 2-on-1 discs about which I had no complaints. Same low quality but that's what I expected from a DVD-R trade. 2. The DVD-R was a direct copy of a DVD which had three films on one disc. That's how I got it as a trade. I don't copy films myself. Believe it or not I actually thought I was doing good by not asking anything for the bonus films!

Secondly, I think you make it sound like Ozzieny is a bad trader because of what you got - ie. Deadly China Doll. That's not the case as I see it, since you probably got a perfect copy of his ORIGINAL Pan Media disc (which apparently is truly horrible, as you pointed out for yourself by citing the HK Flix warning). Therefore Ozzieny can't the blamed for the bad quality on this, because it's simply not his fault (in opposition to the quality reduction you get, when you put 3 movies on 1 disc). You wanted a copy of his Pan Media disc, and you got it - sounds like Ozzieny did his part perfect? And if you're not happy with the result, complain to Pan Media - NOT Ozzieny.

Please try understanding the facts before posting. If you'd read my post it was meant to be and very clearly was ironic. Oscar sent me a film of worse quality than any of the ones I sent him. I wouldn't have put him on the bad traders list because as you say that's Pan Media's fault not his. Same as the disc he got from me was not my fault yet he choose to vilify me for it. If Oscar says I'm a bad trader then that makes him one too. I knew perfectly well it would be the Pan Media version. Why? Because I did my homework beforehand and asked questions. I know you had a good trade with Oscar but that's really no excuse to jump to conclusions in his favour.

I tried to convey this to Markway and explain my disatisfaction with 2 of the discs he sent me.

You complained about 5 or 6 of the discs I sent you. Then narrowed it down to 2 once you realised you were wrong. I still have those e-mails as proof. Don't make me post them please. The 3-on-1 is a routine DVD-R job which you could have gotten from any trader. Not checking for scratches was my fault and if the disc hadn't played because of that I would have replaced it. How can I be fairer than that? You may be new here but you've caused a lot of trouble over nothing.

I will say the quality was just very very poor and I expected 3 films on three separate discs not 3 films on 1 disk.

Why did you expect that? You sent doubles. I sent one double and one triple. Not ideal perhaps but hardly a crisis. If you had bought the "original" (and I use that word loosely) DVD on-line it would look the same. That's not my fault. If I want single discs I make sure and ask first if that's possible. Never assume and never blame the other trader for your lack of foresight. The quality may well have been poor but having watched them all, none were as bad as Deadly China Dolls, and I have no intention of requesting a replacement or making a fuss or calling you names. Why? Because I know that's not your fault. But with me - you think it is! Unfair.

And the scratched disk just added fuel to the fire.

Not ideal I know. But did you watch the disc? If it plays perfect there's nothing I can do. These are standard forum guidelines.

Everything else Markway did send was well received which I relayed to him and will mention here.

Well that's not what you said at first... only after I explained the situation. You have the right to your opinion but please for sake of fairness don't distort the facts.

Thats why it would have been nice if he could have just gotten over this idea that I was trying to bully him or 'get over' on him.'

That's how it came across. Your e-mails were rude and demanding. What else was I supposted to think? You complained about most of the stuff I sent initially and it made you sound like a chancer. I think most here would have reacted the same as I did.

Since Vlade has come to his support, I am giving Markway the benefit of the doubt and retracting his name from the bad trader list

Don't do it because of outside pressure - do it because it's the right thing to do. I want you to see that I'm not the bad guy. Vlade was trying to be helpful but it's really my explainations and rationalisations you should be listening to.

BUT I still am not pleased with the 2 discs I was sent and his unwillingness to work this out.

As I said in my first e-mail response I'm sorry you're not happy - but hopefully now you can see my position. You may not like my trading methods (which are as routine as I've come across and in fact as open as anyone I've dealt with myself) but that doesn't make me wrong or a bad trader. As far as I see it we're both the same in what we send (scratches aside). Be honest: if I asked you for two films and they were both on the same disc with a third film unasked for would you have said nothing and sent the disc anyways? I think most would.

Obviously there were huge misunderstandings and differences of opinion in the deal between me and Mark. I am not here to be taken advantage of nor am I here to be anybody's whipping boy. I treat others fairly and expect to be treated fairly.

Same here. I'm glad you've decided to remove my name from the list - even if it is for the wrong reasons? - as I never wanted to add yours in the first place. I can't say I'm happy about some of the remaining comments designed to make me look like the rogue without actually saying it, but if I can't change your mind it doesn't really matter...

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Guest Johnnie freeze

I'm *not* speaking about any specific situation mentioned here, but perhaps some general guidlines might be a good idea.

The basics that everyone can agree on are bad sellers/traders are people who keep your money/discs/tapes and don't send the goods in return, but maybe there is a grey area that should be considered....{again, Im not speaking on any situation discussed in this thread} There are some who may be deliberatly miseading- they tell you a movie is DVD quality but what you'll end up with is an old video tape copy that they recorded from TV onto their Betamax, then dubbed later to VHS, and later transferred to DVD R. Just because this person sent "something" doesn't let them off the hook, and they should be warned against. {People who trade old VHS transfers are not bad traders as long as they're honest}

Then there is simple miscomunication that is no one's fault....you do a trade for "Shaolin Challenges Ninja" assuming that its Celestial, but what you get is Ground Zero. This can be disappointing, but no one is really to blame. You didn't ask, and they didn't say. It would be nice if the person who gave you GZ would compensate, but they are not obligated to. No big deal, all it cost you was a 40 cent DVD R. Move on.

Quality is also subjective, one person's "Excellent" may be another person's "good". If there is a flick that you MUST have in certain condition, best to see screen shots and make up your own mind.

People also have different agendas in DVD R trading.....some only care about viewing movies they've never seen, then either throwing the disc out or trading it when they're done. They dont really care much about condition as long as it plays, while others are using DVD Rs as their main collection and buy very little. This group will want the best of the best. However, no one should be held accountable for poor quality put out by some studio.

Bottom line: Know the person you are trading with, and what their expectations are.

Peace!

J.F.

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Guest Markgway
Well Mark, it seems anything anyone has to say about this falls on deaf ears with you.

Not so. If anything it's the other way round. I've explained until I'm blue in the face my reasons but you refuse to accept them. What more can I say? You got it into your head that you've been ripped off when you haven't and refuse to back down or admit error - is it because you think it shows weakness? Admitting a mistake shows strength of character. That's why I admitted that I should've checked for scratches on that Chinese Boxer DVD-R and why if it didn't play I would bear responsibility. You refuse to admit any wrong doing even though the print of Deadly China Doll you sent was rank and worse than any copy I sent you. You also sent multiple discs but never mentioned it and bizarrely refuse to even acknowledge it when I brought it up. It's frustrating that you choose selective memory to prove your point whereas I've been honest about everything and every step of the way.

As Vlade pointed out earlier I was not happy about those 2 discs you sent. Period. I feel I was shorted out of 4 films. You sent me 1 disc with 3 films on it that just looks terrible. What dumb luck on my part to choose 3 films from your list that end up being a triple feature.

Not sure what Vlade has to do with it but I'm aware you weren't happy with the quality of those two discs. One - the triple feature - was not my fault - and for the record you asked for two of the films on that disc not three. The third was extra. The scratches although not done by me should have been checked and I accept resonsibility for that. However, the disc plays, which in my book makes a replacement (even if I could lay my hands on one) uncessesary. So that's three films you "were shorted" and three films I've explained away. You have no argument left yet you continue to paint me as the bad guy and yourself as the victim of a rogue trader.

I can understand your point with this particlar disc. Its a triple feature and comes as it does. But you really should list this disc as a triple feature because it absolutely looks terrible and the quality of the picture degenerates all three films badly.

Well that's a fair point, actually, and a valid suggestion, which I may take up. But I can safely say that nowhere on your trade list did you mention that any of your discs were multiples. Not that it will be relevant to me in future, but I expect you will amend your own list accordingly. That way our future traders will be able to see up front exactly what they are getting.

Now I have to find these 3 films again from another trader and spend another 3 discs to obtain them.

I take it you've watched the films to see if they even are worth upgrading? (They ARE watchable as I watched them myself) I'm not sure if better versions are available; that's something you'd have to check upon. The way I see it is: if I like any of the films I got from you I too would have to shell out for upgrades to DVD. So it's not as one-sided as you make out.

I would not even trade this to other members it looks so bad.

That's of course your choice, but you traded a worse looking disc to me, so I'm not sure if you're becoming more stringent on quality control, or felt that it was OK to give me something worse than you would accept yourself? That's a bit of fuzzy logic.

Nor would I ever had taken it in the first place had I known these three films were on the same disc. Putting this on your list is like telling a lie by not telling the whole truth.

It wasn't an intentional deception by any means. I thought it would be more convenient to traders to list each title sperately and under their original title. The things I do - agree with them or not - are usually to aid the trader not myself. I never cheat people as I wouldn't want to be cheated myself. I give as I would expect to receive - but you cannot say the same.

Then, Return of the Boxer, for your information, is a transfer from VHS. First, there are no menus, second, it looks very poor just like a VHS transfer, third, at the end of the film a foreign word pops up with arrows that say rebobinar - that means rewind in spanish. I know - I am spanish. I have never seen this on a dvd. But on a VHS ? YEP. Now you may not have caught that but I did.

Here is the DVD the film was taken from (or at least I was under the impression it was taken from) RETURN OF THE CHINESE BOXER

I didn't know there was a VHS. I only have one US VHS in my entire collection! It seems POSSIBLE that the DVD-R was taken from a VHS using the same print. I can ask the trader at a later date if you still care. I used to have a copy of the Crash DVD myself (a different one) and I recall the film looking exactly the same. Can anyone else comment on this for clarification?

But regardless of your insistence on it being a copy from an original dvd, which it isnt, the disc itself was badly badly scratched. I dont care if it played. I didnt want it in that condition and again you justified your position with a tough luck on my part position.

So you admit it does play? I can't give you a free film becuase of surface scratches on a DVD-R. That's unreasonable. If it had been an original DVD then that would be different. But a disposible copy... would any other trader here expect a replacment because of surface scratches? I know I wouldn't. I'm sure you won't thank me for my help, but I found this link to a box set containing THREE films on DVD including Return of the Chinese Boxer: BOX SET

It's decent value and all three prints are listed as letterboxed -presumably the same as the individual releases and on seperate discs.

And its quite unfair to use China Doll as a comparison. Yes China Doll looks like crap but its the only print available ---thats why anyone I trade with here scoops it up and is happy to have it.

But you made no mention of the fact before trading. Why? If I, unlike yourself, hadn't checked beforehand, I could have expected something in great condition. I don't see how that's different at all. Just because the films I sent are more common, which is debatable, doesn't mean it's OK for you assume that a cruddy print is good enough for me but not for you. Can't you see the hypocrisy?

I paid $10 for it because no one had it here. Now, many have it because I have dispersed it to many, including yourself.

Hey, I'm not complaining. I knew what I was getting because I checked. I'm just making a point. Incidentally, here's a link to the DVD for anyone who still wants it! DEADLY CHINA DOLL

As far as starting trouble for nothing, I did nothing of the sort. I attempted several times to work this out with you and you have refused. I posted what I felt I needed to because of your reluctance to be considerate on this matter.

You mailed me several times, I responded several times. Because you did not get what you wanted, you posted here in the hopes of either embarrassing me, defaming me, or both? This was bang out of order and something usually reserved for thieves. You publicly dragged my name through the mud for what is essentially a difference of opinion. The irony is: had you put it to rest and said "please check /inform me next time" not only would I have done that, but I might have even thrown in a couple of freebies by way of apology. But your first mail straight of the bat was accusitory, impolite and cheeky in your DEMAND for compensation. You didn't just complain, as is anyone's right, you demanded I give you free items. Anyone would have acted the same as I. And had the situations been reversed I would not have acted as you did toward me. You made an enemy out of me for no good reason and dragged it on the forum; and to me that's sad.

Again, even Vlade agrees that this matter should not be getting all this attention here.

I think we should stop referencing Vlade and Beardy and Knockabout. They have opinions, fine. But it's nothing to do with them. This is between us and should have stayed that way.

All you had to do was work this out - send me a few films in exchange on a future trade or work something out some way that would have been satisfactory. But you just continue to be inflexible.

"HAD". That sounds infelixible doesn't it? Be honest: the only resolution that would have suited you is getting exactly what you wanted and I couldn't do that. I did not steal from you and a simple "I don't want to trade with you again because I'm not happy" would've sufficed. That's your choice. But you just couldn't stand not getting your own way and set out to punish me in public. That much is blatantly obvious.

I removed your name from this bad list because I felt others who you have dealt with came to your aid just as some came to my aid.

I neither wanted, not needed, nor asked for anyone to make excuses for me. It's a pretty poor show that you removed my name only because your felt others ganging up on you rather than because it was the right thing to do. All you've really done is reword your original post to say the same damn thing!

It still does not excuse you in my eyes regrading these 2 discs and 4 films which I have lost out on.

I need no excuses -- and again, three films.

Johnnie freeze made a good point to me earlier. He stated "you take the good with the bad". That is a valid point but I would probably have done that if I had other substantial trades with you or if you would have at least been more considerate. But you werent so I didnt. This was the first major trade we had and I just felt you were pulling a fast one on me and I didnt appreciate it and still dont.

That's exactly how I felt.

Had it been the other way around I would have made my point and just given you what you wanted to make you happy. And that would have been the end of it. Thats my way.

So why the confrontation straight away? You acted as though I was sitting at home laughing manically whilst stroking Blofeld's Cat. I get nothing out of this!! If it's a con on my part then it's the worst one ever. Trust me: if I were to con something I would do a much better job. Know that. I've never cheated anyone in four years of trading and this is the first time I've been accused of anything like. I hope that in itself makes you proud.

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Guest Markgway

Yeah, that's a great response. How many seconds did it take to think it up? Change the subject and have another stab. Much better than actually answering my points. This conversation is obviously dead on arrival. :rolleyes

For the record I've amended my thread to reflect some of the just criticisms here. Oscar thinks I'm a bad trader - thus I say the same about him. Nothing else more to say.

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Guest Johnnie freeze
Wise words from Johnnie Freeze. Everything you say is sensible and I would trade by those guidelines.

Thanks for the compliment. I'm no authority on the subject, I was only hoping things could end on a positive note but....!:\

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Guest Markgway

You don't need to be an authority to speak common sense. As a trader you have as much right to speak as anyone else. As for ending on a positive note... it'll never happen. I wrote a thorough response which I doubt Oscar read (hopefully others will before they judge me on the say so of one unreasonable customer) instead choosing to take another swing. I think he's already shown himself up enough. Nothing much I can do about it. Anyone who's traded with me knows my reputation and that's good enough for me.

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Guest GwaiLoMoFo

J Freeze makes good points. No sense dwelling on somethig so trivial (.40$ discs). I believe this horse is beaten, dead, rotten and begining to smell. We learn form bad experiences (our own and others) an move on. I have traded with all individuals mentioned with perfect results. And will continue to do so. Everybody have a great day!!:D

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Guest jumper5836

I traded 4 movies and sent him in Sept 16 a copy of my redubs of

Crippled Avengers

Heaven and Hell

Shaolin challenges Ninja

Three Evil Masters

He then doesn't send out the ones we agreed to trade for, so he waits and receives the 4 movies I sent.

October 7 he writes to me complaining that crippled avengers has distracting audio noise and that my redubs are not up to his official standards.

At this time he still hasn't send me anything and he tells me he will send the stuff I wanted.

I reviewed the audio noise and it was from the original english audio track on the Crash Cinema dvd. Had nothing to do with my redub job.

Oct 15 he writes to me Sorry, he is busy and hasn't sent anything

Nov 7 he write to me Sorry, he is busy and now he says he won't send me the dvds he has redubbed because they will be released in the US.

And to request another movie. So I am understanding okay who cares I was only interested to see his work that he thinks is so much better then mine.

I then request titles that are just old english dubs. None of his redubs and nothing that’s too rare or perfect.

Jan 12 I am wondering why nothing has ever shown up

I send I a email

Wow! I can't believe you still havn't responded to my email or send me

anything.

This is amazing!

Jan 13 he writes back and tells me my stuff is in the trash

hi,

no problem. just as amazing as your dubs. i watched them all to the most

part and can say - i hope my tips have helped you improved to get them

to a watchable standard now. they're all in the trash btw , sorry to say

that.

you're not forgotten...people like me or say for example Linn1, have

lots of work on our hands and we need some time BEFORE we get to our

hobbies... as hard as it may be to believe for folks with much free time

on their hands.

i won't forget you..no worries.

ms

Today I am upset, am I entitled to being pissed or can someone actually have no time in the 4 months to send me the stuff we traded for. Give me a f***ing break.

This guy is a dishonest @#%$ and has no honor at all.

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Guest silver hermit

to recive and not send is dishonest a deal is a deal. he should honor your deal even if he don't like what you do. IMO

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Guest strutr74

WOW, What an ASSH&*E!!! He says he doesn't have the time to send you out the 4 dvds he owes. And uses he is as busy as LINN as an example. Give me a break. I work 50 hours a week and do Several trades at the same time. What a loser!!!!

Ps. I always see him down others work? Has anyone seen his so-called expert stuff?? Didn't think so :rolleyes

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Guest cdvickers

He had enough time to watch the four or your movies, but he doesn't have time to send yours, thats just a line of garbage.

Also to suggest that he is too busy to make time for his hobbies is outrageous. I understand that we all have jobs or go to school, or have something other them hours of free time to watch and burn kung fu movies. But if you don't have the time to complete a 4 movie trade, then don't make any trades!

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Guest vlade2002

Sounds exactly like an experience I had awhile back on this forum. Exactly as Silver Hermit put it - You must honor the deal! thats all there is to it... regardless of what you recieve.

I have bought and delt so many times, and often the tape I get isnt exactly what I expected, but I will always go through with the deal!

I like to keep a good track record, so I can actually trade with other people, rather then getting abusive emails or other nonsense - what a waiste of time.

:)

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Guest hammyhamster27

Yes I'd be pissed too. Glad I never traded or will ever trade with him sounds kidda smug to me

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Guest vlade2002

And my experience, and about 30 other people on this message board. I can't believe he's still allowed to post here...

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Guest vlade2002

Yeah, well I think he's been having good trades as of late. Theres been no complaints lately, he seems to be doing the right thing, so props to the guy.

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Guest shaolindogpaw

this seller sells bulk kung fu dvd movies on ebay, most of them are worthless crap, but i bought the lot of movies just because 9 jackie chan movies were advertised, and i like JC. So i ordered in december...finally got the movies in feburary! when i got them...no jackie chan movies, only 8 of them were kung fu movies, the rest were really bad samurai movies and a couple starring M.C. Kung fu, when i told the seller this they said theyd reship the J.C. movies, i still havnt gotten anything and its march now, and the seller gave me a negative feedback(avoid this buyer at all cost horrible bidder) after i gave them one for not sending the right movies. i hate ebay now, i feel that if you buy something and pay immediatly you have fullfilled your part and deserve a positive feedback...these scumbags wait and see if you give them a negative then in spite give you a negative even if youve been patient for 4 f-ing months. DO NOT BUY FROM THIS SELLER, unless you want to pay 80 bucks for the longest headache youve ever had.

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