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Bruce Lee Newspaper Clippings: Needles, MJ and blows to the head!

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The thread has turned into a rumor mill and you don't have proof?

Have a think to yourself here, pal. If medical documents which contain scientific literature and jargon of that calibre can't be considered as proof, then what would you need? A picture of Bruce Lee lying dead with a brownie in one hand and a needle in the other?

I have the autopsy report and portions of the inquest transcript (from 1973) including deposition by Ting Pei and Eugene Chu (Ting Pei's Physician). Let me guess? They have been tampered with, right?

You aren't being a "real fan". You're being blinded by nostalgia because you like to think of Bruce Lee as the guy from the movies. He was a martial arts genius with as many flaws, in fact more flaws, than you, me and everyone on the board.

This isn't a lecture, I'm just stating the obvious mate.

Even if we accept the medical document as legitimate it wouldn't be proof of anything because, at the very least, it was refuted by another medical expert. Sure, you could say he said the marijuana Bruce had ingested was insignificant because people were trying to keep Bruce's life insurance policy from being negated, but we don't know for a fact who was right in their assessment of the drug's damage.

As for your statement that Bruce Lee was more flawed than you, me, or anyone else, for that matter, that's got someone's humble opinion written all over it; not only do none of us here know from firsthand experience what Bruce's flaws were (or all of his strengths, for that matter), how could you possibly reasonably compare him to anyone else when we don't even know eachother? Even if we knew eachother personally, would either of us be in a good position to judge which of us is more or less screwed up? I don't think so.

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The thread has turned into a rumor mill and you don't have proof?

... If medical documents which contain scientific literature and jargon of that calibre can't be considered as proof, then what would you need? A picture of Bruce Lee lying dead with a brownie in one hand and a needle in the other?

They'd say it was photo shopped.

bruce-lee-apprv.gif

:nerd:

Note: Although in the documentary, Bruce Lee, The Legend, when they show his study, ironically, after his death, there's a plate of half eaten brownies on his desk.:ooh:

Funny how brownies never turned up in the autopsy. He clearly was eating them that day. The shot is taken of his study shortly after he died.

:neutral:

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I am not "Blinded" by anything. I know that he had flaws, he is human after all, but I just don't see any real proof that anything that has been said is actually true. We are not even sure where that medical document that was showed earlier even came from. With a little time and the right books, anyone could come up with a document like that and post on here as proof. I am not saying that is what anybody on here did, just that someone could easly do that.

As I have said repeatedly now, it's one document of "several", signed off by the key people involved in the autopsy, the toxicology report and the hearing in to his death.

"Someone" could easily do that?

Okay pal!

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Even if we accept the medical document as legitimate it wouldn't be proof of anything because, at the very least, it was refuted by another medical expert. Sure, you could say he said the marijuana Bruce had ingested was insignificant because people were trying to keep Bruce's life insurance policy from being negated, but we don't know for a fact who was right in their assessment of the drug's damage.

As for your statement that Bruce Lee was more flawed than you, me, or anyone else, for that matter, that's got someone's humble opinion written all over it; not only do none of us here know from firsthand experience what Bruce's flaws were (or all of his strengths, for that matter), how could you possibly reasonably compare him to anyone else when we don't even know eachother? Even if we knew eachother personally, would either of us be in a good position to judge which of us is more or less screwed up? I don't think so.

The logic applied in that first paragraph is akin to you seeing smoke bellowing from your living room window, only for you to ignore it because it isn't necessarily a fire. Your mind's made up mate and you don't want to know, that's the problem! Your outlook is unapologetic hero worship lol.

What proof would you realistically need? Answer the question?

Maybe I over rate myself and the members of the board in relation to the flaws part.

Bruce Lee, in July 1973, used drugs, cheated on his wife, had severe anger issues, threatened old men and was guilty of extreme self obsession

That's just off the top of my head. Now, I'm only guilty of four of five but then again I've only been married for two months :tongue::tongue::tongue:

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As I have said repeatedly now, it's one document of "several", signed off by the key people involved in the autopsy, the toxicology report and the hearing in to his death.

"Someone" could easily do that?

Okay pal!

Yes, I do believe the right people could forge those documents. It is not the hardest thing in the world to do. It happens everyday, you here rumors about famous people that end up being completly false. It seems to me that you really never like Bruce Lee to begin with and are just hating on him for your own personal reasons and not from what who have seen or heard. You keep saying we are blinded by hero worship, but it seems to me that you are the one being blinded, by your own hatred.

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Yes, I do believe the right people could forge those documents. It is not the hardest thing in the world to do. It happens everyday, you here rumors about famous people that end up being completly false. It seems to me that you really never like Bruce Lee to begin with and are just hating on him for your own personal reasons and not from what who have seen or heard. You keep saying we are blinded by hero worship, but it seems to me that you are the one being blinded, by your own hatred.

It happens everyday? Do you listen to yourself?

I hate Bruce Lee??? FFS dude! :tinysmile_angry2_t:

I've been a martial artist since I was 12 years old, fought in competition until 2009, visited Hong Kong in 1994, bought every version of every movie, read everything there is to read, crossed every "t" and dotted every "i" ! Bruce Lee was the catalyst for all of that!

I don't hate Bruce Lee, pal. I'm just a realist and think he made an arse of several parts of his life.

Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard are big idols of mine and were equally great in their own field. Both men have flaws on a similar scale as to what Bruce Lee had!

That's life!

You're obviously a lot younger that me (it shows) and need to remove your George Lazenby "Stoner" spectacles and look at things a bit more realistically.

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The logic applied in that first paragraph is akin to you seeing smoke bellowing from your living room window, only for you to ignore it because it isn't necessarily a fire. Your mind's made up mate and you don't want to know, that's the problem! Your outlook is unapologetic hero worship lol.

What proof would you realistically need? Answer the question?

Maybe I over rate myself and the members of the board in relation to the flaws part.

Bruce Lee, in July 1973, used drugs, cheated on his wife, had severe anger issues, threatened old men and was guilty of extreme self obsession

That's just off the top of my head. Now, I'm only guilty of four of five but then again I've only been married for two months :tongue::tongue::tongue:

If there had been smoke billowing from Betty Ting Pei's apt. window way back then, people wouldn't still be looking for a smoking gun today. Because different experts have offered different expert opinions, of course there's still room for reasonable doubt, 'nuff said, at least about why I don't take anything I've heard or read here as proof of anything.

As for Bruce Lee's flaws, I have no doubt that he used marijuana, cheated on his wife, had a temper, got pissed off at Lo Wei, & had other issues (who doesn't?), but who are you comparing him to? Couldn't you say the same kind of thing about hundred's of other celebrities, professional athletes, politicians, etc.? I don't think I can rightfully sit & judge such behavior having never actually been in those peoples' shoes or anything close to it. How about you? Even if you could say your life was remarkably similar to Bruce Lee's, you still weren't/aren't him. How many sycophants do you have constantly praising you (at least to your face) & willing to get you anything you want? I know I don't have any, can't really relate to what that would be like.

And if you're going to point out flaws, shouldn't you balance them out with a few more strengths? Like determination combined with willingness to work hard, ability to focus on and reach goals despite obstacles & closed doors, intelligence & not being afraid to question traditions, loyalty to friends, a desire to deliver high quality work, any more you might like to add? There is no "unapologetic hero worship" here, though I will admit to enjoying the occasional debate, as I've said before I think it's good that Bruce's fans have heard more negative things about him lately to balance out all the John Little like worship the Lee Estate likes to offer, but I still don't think 99.9% of all the people in the world are in any position to rightfully judge someone like Bruce Lee, least of all people like you or I who never even met the guy!

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If there had been smoke billowing from Betty Ting Pei's apt. window way back then, people wouldn't still be looking for a smoking gun today. Because different experts have offered different expert opinions, of course there's still room for reasonable doubt, 'nuff said, at least about why I don't take anything I've heard or read here as proof of anything.

As for Bruce Lee's flaws, I have no doubt that he used marijuana, cheated on his wife, had a temper, got pissed off at Lo Wei, & had other issues (who doesn't?), but who are you comparing him to? Couldn't you say the same kind of thing about hundred's of other celebrities, professional athletes, politicians, etc.? I don't think I can rightfully sit & judge such behavior having never actually been in those peoples' shoes or anything close to it. How about you? Even if you could say your life was remarkably similar to Bruce Lee's, you still weren't/aren't him. How many sycophants do you have constantly praising you (at least to your face) & willing to get you anything you want? I know I don't have any, can't really relate to what that would be like.

And if you're going to point out flaws, shouldn't you balance them out with a few more strengths? Like determination combined with willingness to work hard, ability to focus on and reach goals despite obstacles & closed doors, intelligence & not being afraid to question traditions, loyalty to friends, a desire to deliver high quality work, any more you might like to add? There is no "unapologetic hero worship" here, though I will admit to enjoying the occasional debate, as I've said before I think it's good that Bruce's fans have heard more negative things about him lately to balance out all the John Little like worship the Lee Estate likes to offer, but I still don't think 99.9% of all the people in the world are in any position to rightfully judge someone like Bruce Lee, least of all people like you or I who never even met the guy!

Applause for the Man They Still Call Bruce :angel:

Yes I could say the same thing about 100's of celebrities mate. That is exactly what I've been trying to point out for the best part of three pages.

While I acknowledge Bruce Lee's qualities, his negatives are glaring. Did I know him? Not in this life but being that he is one of the most written about icons in history, I think it's fair to form an opinion and an accurate one at that. Counter this with fans who can't see past a Game of Death suit (not yourself) and I am willing to place money on the fact that my outlook is much closer to the truth.

When you're sitting with toxicology reports, autopsy disclosure and a transcript from an inquest and someone says "That isn't proof" then it's difficult to take them seriously.

PS - "Determination combined with willingness to work hard, ability to focus on and reach goals despite obstacles & closed doors, intelligence & not being afraid to question traditions, loyalty to friends, a desire to deliver high quality work"

Acknowledged fully....

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Don't think. Feel.. It is like a finger, pointing a way to the Moon.. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you'll miss ALL of that HEAVENLY GLORY.

Can't you just feel the love here?

:nerd:

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Don't think. Feel.. It is like a finger, pointing a way to the Moon.. Don't concentrate on the finger, or you'll miss ALL of that HEAVENLY GLORY.

Can't you just feel the love here?

:nerd:

I can't be getting painted up as a Bruce Lee Hater lol? Thinking of getting everyone around to Ting Pei's flat for a doobie to clear the air on this one! :tongue:

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I can't be getting painted up as a Bruce Lee Hater lol? Thinking of getting everyone around to Ting Pei's flat for a doobie to clear the air on this one! :tongue:

Or.. We can all share a sip from So High's cup! :bigsmile:

No telling what beverage is in there, but I'm certain we'll all master The 8 Drunken Gods!

Theres heroes and theres legends. Heroes get remembered but legends never die. Follow you heart kid and you can never go wrong.

Now, how about that drink?

:crossedlips:

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I believe this will be last I talk of this subject:

I am not saying that Bruce Lee was perfect, he is a human being. He may or may not have done the things metioned on here. I don't for sure and I doubt anyone can really be 100% sure about it. It he did it, then fine, It will not in anyway affect me being a fan of his. I am just trying my best to say to say in a civil manner that I have a hard time believing things that come out about people( especially famous people) after they die and when they are alive for that matter. They're allways people that are going to try to ruin the image of these people, so with that in mind, I take everything I hear with a grain of salt. I hope that I have been clear on my views and that they will be respected and I will respect everyone else's views. We may not agree, but that is just what being a human is about.

I would also like to make a public apology to sdog2006. You has the right to believe the way you wanted to and I should not said some of the things I did. So:

I apologize sdog2006, I hope we can put this crap behind us and be friends.

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So Bruce Lee eats brownies at his study and ends up at Betty's place dead. Maybe in between that, he got hit with a dim mak and somehow survived or beaten with bags of oranges as urban legend goes they don't leave bruises.

Anyways, anyone else notice the second Strait Times article mentions Linda Lee as being Swedish born? What other modern day "superman of his specialty" has had major trouble with a Swedish born wife? Tiger Woods. Man, can you say copycat effect?

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I believe this will be last I talk of this subject:

I am not saying that Bruce Lee was perfect, he is a human being. He may or may not have done the things metioned on here. I don't for sure and I doubt anyone can really be 100% sure about it. It he did it, then fine, It will not in anyway affect me being a fan of his. I am just trying my best to say to say in a civil manner that I have a hard time believing things that come out about people( especially famous people) after they die and when they are alive for that matter. They're allways people that are going to try to ruin the image of these people, so with that in mind, I take everything I hear with a grain of salt. I hope that I have been clear on my views and that they will be respected and I will respect everyone else's views. We may not agree, but that is just what being a human is about.

I would also like to make a public apology to sdog2006. You has the right to believe the way you wanted to and I should not said some of the things I did. So:

I apologize sdog2006, I hope we can put this crap behind us and be friends.

I tend to believe two imminent physicians (Don Langford and Peter Wu), who treated Bruce Lee personally, than the made up stories designed to protect his reputation.

Equagesic? Where was the equagesic when he almost died of brain swelling on May 10th? The truth is right in front of you, dude!

You don't need to apologise mate. You haven't really said anything offensive whatsoever!

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At the 14:08 mark, Logan reveals an undoubted truth:

48YoZ3x8liI

and an intelligent explanation.

:nerd:

Yep

"By fair means or foul"

I believe "fair" you believe "foul".

Fair point?

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Yep

"By fair means or foul"

I believe "fair" you believe "foul".

Fair point?

On the contrary, I'm not even debating the fair or foul point. I'm pointing towards Logan's honest assessment and the secondary comment regarding where the fatal episode took place and how little was offered in assisting him. The fact Logan raises fair or foul gives way to there still could be something at the root.

Or... Ultimately, Betty was a stupid Bitch.

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On the contrary, I'm not even debating the fair or foul point. I'm pointing towards Logan's honest assessment and the secondary comment regarding where the fatal episode took place and how little was offered in assisting him. The fact Logan raises fair or foul gives way to there still could be something at the root.

Or... Ultimately, Betty was a stupid Bitch.

I don't really get you mate.

All he says is that Bruce Lee was poisoned on purpose or accidentally by cannabis and, unlike May 10th, there was no medical assistance.

I have little doubt that Ting Pei froze when Bruce's symptoms erupted.

Three reasons for this:

  • She shit a brick
  • He pulled through on May 10th
  • She feared that if their affair leaked, Lee would end it

Stating the obvious but Ting Pei was a f*cking loonball. Once ambulances start arriving on the scene and people see what's going on that shit is public and she would dread that.

I reckon Bruce Lee was dead in that apartment for hours; while Betty, Raymond and Eugene Chu concocted a plan to get Lee taken to hospital quietly. They knew he was gone so why rush? They waited until it was very late and then called for an ambulance. Also explains why Chow talked shit about Lee dying at home, which was clearly premeditated. No other rational explanation for how long it all took.

Have you got the transcript from HK court? Will I post it? It's just segments, mate.

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I don't really get you mate.

What don't you get? I am speaking about Logan's points being keen and Betty being stupid.

All he says is that Bruce Lee was poisoned on purpose or accidentally by cannabis and, unlike May 10th, there was no medical assistance.

Huge possibility since he was taking the cannabis for a long time. Betty didn't take action. I'm certain she heard about his May collapse. I bet Linda would have gotten him to the hospital.

I have little doubt that Ting Pei froze when Bruce's symptoms erupted.

Three reasons for this:

  • She shit a brick
  • He pulled through on May 10th
  • She feared that if their affair leaked, Lee would end it

Those are not valid reasons to not act on the situation. Affair or not, If medical attention is required, I'm calling a friggin' ambulance. That's why she is stupid. Their rumored affair had already leaked and she was calling his home in the wee hours of the night anyway. Neighbors and Doormen saw him coming to her place regularly.

Stating the obvious but Ting Pei was a f*cking loonball. Once ambulances start arriving on the scene and people see what's going on that shit is public and she would dread that.

Doesn't beat him dying at her place, and not in the ambulance or at the hospital. I would rather look like I was trying to assist than not do anything. Lee was dumber than she, for picking her for a concubine. You better believe my mistress gonna take care of me. Proper.

I reckon Bruce Lee was dead in that apartment for hours; while Betty, Raymond and Eugene Chu concocted a plan to get Lee taken to hospital quietly. They knew he was gone so why rush? They waited until it was very late and then called for an ambulance. Also explains why Chow talked shit about Lee dying at home, which was clearly premeditated. No other rational explanation for how long it all took.

Have you got the transcript from HK court?

That may be very true. Plenty of time to get him looking "well dressed."

No, I don't have the transcript-anymore, I think that's loaded with a bunch of lies too.

How about this?... The autopsy never revealed any food consumption from those last hours. Why is that? I'm sure he had to have eaten that day. Did he take the cannabis before leaving home, or after being at Betty's? If it was taken at Betty's, was it stashed there? Yes? Well it could have been tainted. Who saw him take it? Chow, Betty, or both? It's not like Lee hid the fact he used.

I'd like to know the real reason that Chow drove him to Betty's.

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What don't you get? I am speaking about Logan's points being keen and Betty being stupid.

Huge possibility since he was taking the cannabis for a long time. Betty didn't take action. I'm certain she heard about his May collapse. I bet Linda would have gotten him to the hospital.

Those are not valid reasons to not act on the situation. Affair or not, If medical attention is required, I'm calling a friggin' ambulance. That's why she is stupid. Their rumored affair had already leaked and she was calling his home in the wee hours of the night anyway. Neighbors and Doormen saw him coming to her place regularly.

Doesn't beat him dying at her place, and not in the ambulance or at the hospital. I would rather look like I was trying to assist than not do anything. Lee was dumber than she, for picking her for a concubine. You better believe my mistress gonna take care of me. Proper.

That may be very true. Plenty of time to get him looking "well dressed."

No, I don't have the transcript-anymore, I think that's loaded with a bunch of lies too.

How about this?... The autopsy never revealed any food consumption from those last hours. Why is that? I'm sure he had to have eaten that day. Did he take the cannabis before leaving home, or after being at Betty's? If it was taken at Betty's, was it stashed there? Yes? Well it could have been tainted. Who saw him take it? Chow, Betty, or both? It's not like Lee hid the fact he used.

I'd like to know the real reason that Chow drove him to Betty's.

Little doubt that Betty knew of the May collapse but "more importantly" she knew he survived it. Also bare in mind that Bruce Lee was playing down that entire incident. He was a stuck up asshole to his own doctor (Langford) when questioned on marijuana and then boasted like a child because he was told that he had the body of an 18 year old in LA.

Hardly sounds like he was taking the initial collapse seriously does it? Do you think he conveyed that any differently to others?

The Ting Pei affair may have been in the gossip section of HK Weekly but July 20th sent the whole thing in to another stratosphere.

You're also giving Ting Pei way too much credit. Didn't the silly bitch attempt to off herself at one point? She was mental so there is no point comparing your judgement to hers. That plus Lee's FRIGHTENING condition, PLUS the fact that she was probably as stoned as he was on that gross shit led to SEVERE negligence.

In terms of food I think we both know what he was eating that day. The autopsy turned over cannabis, equagesic and carbonated drinks. I think he was dead late afternoon so I don't read too much into that. Both of them probably whacked half a dozen brownies a piece.

It's like we've both said, for you his cannabis was poisoned by an external source and he died. For me his cannabis didn't need to be poisoned because his body was so fragile to its effects.

We could go to town until doomsday but neither of us will definitively be proven correct. Even if Ting Pei ever comes clean on the whole issue we only have her word for it and she's still a f*ckin clown.

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Little doubt that Betty knew of the May collapse but "more importantly" she knew he survived it. Also bare in mind that Bruce Lee was playing down that entire incident. He was a stuck up asshole to his own doctor (Langford) when questioned on marijuana and then boasted like a child because he was told that he had the body of an 18 year old in LA.

Hardly sounds like he was taking the initial collapse seriously does it? Do you think he conveyed that any differently to others?

The Ting Pei affair may have been in the gossip section of HK Weekly but July 20th sent the whole thing in to another stratosphere.

You're also giving Ting Pei way too much credit. Didn't the silly bitch attempt to off herself at one point? She was mental so there is no point comparing your judgement to hers. That plus Lee's FRIGHTENING condition, PLUS the fact that she was probably as stoned as he was on that gross shit led to SEVERE negligence.

In terms of food I think we both know what he was eating that day. The autopsy turned over cannabis, equagesic and carbonated drinks. I think he was dead late afternoon so I don't read too much into that. Both of them probably whacked half a dozen brownies a piece.

It's like we've both said, for you his cannabis was poisoned by an external source and he died. For me his cannabis didn't need to be poisoned because his body was so fragile to its effects.

We could go to town until doomsday but neither of us will definitively be proven correct. Even if Ting Pei ever comes clean on the whole issue we only have her word for it and she's still a f*ckin clown.

Yeah.

:nerd:

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