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Guest Choreographic Differences

Choreographic Differences

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Guest Choreographic Differences

Greetings All,

As a lover of the "Old School," I would like to note a few of, IMO, annoying examples of what seperates Old and New Wave choreographic styles:

1) Old School maintains the sensitivity, trapping, locking, warding, parrying, checking and their counters, in each exchange...New Wave is content with basic strikes and their counters.

2) All though fights are shot between 24fps and 22fps, the richness of the structure of Old School fight pieces make them vastly superior to their New Wave variant.

3) Old School choreography was basically done by lovers of the arts and for lovers of the arts.

4) Pigging backing on the first point, Old School style is far more advanced than its New Wave Counterpart...

Mor To Come...

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Guest Choreographic Differences

DragonsForever,

Watch the sticking and adhering with the bridge arm technique done, for example, in Sammo's "Enter The Fat Dragon" (the finale between Sammo and Leung Kar Yan) and the same technique utilized in, say, Leung Kar Yan's/Phillip Ko's/Wang Lung Wei's Fearless Dradon's. Compare that with Jackie Chan's and Sammo's (to name but a few) New Wave pieces, and, IMO, the difference, as I'vementioned, it quite discernible.

Thanks,

danmye2002

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Guest Hard Knuckles

the old school fights had a rhythm to them, i dodn't like that, it takes away the realism and pace of the fight, something like fist of legend displays the art in its purest form and keeps the pace, the problem is that now the kung fu genre isn't pure, it is always mixed with drama or comedy or whatever, so there is less effort put into the fight sequences and more into the plot, in old school kung fu films the main focus was the fights

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Guest Yi Long

I agree with the richness of different blocks and strikes etc of the old school flicks, but I also seriously disliked some of that slow choreography in some of those old movies, like they're just faking a fight instead of fighting.

Those old Jackie Chan movies, among many others, had that problem (Drunken Master, Snake in the Eagles Shadow etc.)

That all changed with Sammo, Yuen Woo Ping and Jackie being so innovative and changing that style into more fast paced and realistic.

Fist of Legend is a great example of doing it all 'RIGHT!'

Let's hope that Donnie yen, who has mentioned his love for the fast paced fight-scenes without wire and/or CGI aid very often, will be able to make a brilliant Iron Monkey 2 with great choreography the way HE wants it (Not the way the Studio's want it; CGI and wires) and create a new wave of Kung Fu movies.

History learns us that Kung Fu movies become popular for a few years every 10 years or so...; beginning 70's (Bruce Lee)

Beginning 80's (Jackie Chan and Sammo)

Beginning 90's (Jet Li, Yuen Woo Ping, Tsui Hark)

Beginning 00's (Edison Chen and Sam Lee; HELL NO! :rollin )

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Guest AndyBronson

An example of great old school kung fu would be the prodigal son where the fights are fast and well executed.

An example of great new wave fight scenes would be fist of legend where the fights are well made but there is less moves per shot and there are wires used to enhance the action. in new wave there is a lot of moves that would not work in a real situation.

my favourite films are those that mix both new wave and old school like Tiger cage 2 where the fight mixes both realistic and unrealistic styles to create some great fast paced action scenes.

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Guest stuntpeople

If Donnie makes a movie on his own, I dunno, I'm suspecting more Princess Blade stuff. Pretty scenery, but little substance. Truth is unless Donnie produces his own movie, he's not gonna get what he wants. Producers don't go for what the kung fu fans want. They could care less. They go for pretty faces, the money, the sequels. Donnie might even do the same if he wants to score some dough. That's where the independent action movie-makers come in. Good thing there's a nice handfull of those online, and like O said, they're the ones who are gonna please the MA fans. Hopefully some good mainstream stuff will come our way, but I doubt anything will blow our skull caps off. I'm even skeptical of Drunken Monkey, as insane as that sounds.

Eric

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Guest Yi Long

well...Donnie at least KNOWS that GOOD martial arts scenes in a movie are the stuff people like Sammo and Yuen Woo Ping will be remembered and respected for, even 20-30 years after those movies are made. The quality doesn't fade away over time. Donnie Yen has an ego and that's very good cause that means he wants to show everyone what HE can do, choreography wise, performing-wise etc.

He also doesn't really strike me as a money-hungry bastard or anything like that so there is (some) hope that when he gets the chance, he WILL do kung fu action the 'right' way cause he knows that's the best and most difficult stuff to do.

I'm also sure that the general american audience would prefer Fist of Legend over Crouching Tiger or The Matrix any day.

I mean...crouching tiger looks pretty cool and all with some nice swords and flying moves etc, and all in all it's just a very good movie with some very good quality fights, but I mean; FIST OF LEGEND!!! It's @#%$ GREAT!

Miramax would make ALOT of money if they used gave Fist of Legend a big marketing campaign and would release it uncut and subbed in the theatres. I can't even imagine what braindead monkey they have in the top-office over at Miramax who's saying; 'You know what....instead of releasing FOL, let's make Jet do a movie with Tom Arnold; it will be classic!'

Ok...I strawled a bit off topic here but what i mean to say is, there IS a big ass huge audiénce out there for down-to-earth great quality choreography without all the over-the-top wire @#%$ and CGI etc. The general public hasn't seen it yet, but they would love it if they did. I think they liked the non-flying martial arts in Crouching Tiger alot better then all he flying stuff. Ditto with Iron Monkey.

Let's hope Donnie will get free reign and delivers the good :)

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Guest stuntpeople

I'd have to disagree and say American audiences are awed by wirework and stuff that ground-fans like us don't really care for. And I doubt most of them could tell the difference between a real martial artist and someone trained for 2 months before shooting.

As for Donnie's ego, yea I think he's got one, but I also think the guy knows his limitations. I don't see him trying to do his own stunts like Aaron Kwok and then breaking his shoulder. Intelligent ego it is.

Eric

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Guest Shanghaikid

I have to agree with Eric. I remember when I was in high school..few guys told me to bring some films to watch and they requested Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon as one of them. I bought along CTHD, Police Story, Drunken Master 2, and Fist Of Legend. We only watched the fights and when we started to watch CTHD, one guy said "this is the phattest thing I ever seen" I asked about the other films, another guy said "there pretty cool but CTHD beats them all!" They all thought Zhang Zi Yi was an awesome martial artist.

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Guest stuntpeople

Isn't that the damn case most of the time? I TRIED to show people scenes from Angry Ranger, Warriors Two, Two Toothless Tigers, and they weren't interested. Then they turn around and enjoy 36 Crazy Fists or whatever that travesty is.

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Guest italdesign

Well, I showed my friend Storm Riders, Drunken Master 2, and Chinese Super Ninja, 3 completely different "martial arts" movies outlining the 3 biggest genre movements in the last 30 years. I think he liked DM2 best.

While most Americans may like high wire stuff (which is also my favorite), there are certain ppl (mostly trained in MA) who appreciates hardcore Bruce Lee movies and stuff like that. I think overall, the younger tend to like high wire, and the older tend to like, well, nothing. The middle aged ppl are the ones who like hardcore.

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Guest AndyBronson

I am 19 but I prefer the older hardcore stuff like prodigal son warriors two and bruce lee movies.

I dont mind modern kung fu movies as long as they show the real techniques as well as the wire moves the films that have managed to do this are most of donnie yen's films and others like drunken master 2, once upon a time in china 1, fist of legend. But there is a lot of @#%$ kung fu movies these days the fight scenes look like they took about 5 minutes to create and most of the new young kung fu stars haven't even done any martial arts in their life and they think they know kung fu by training for about 2 to 3 months before shooting now that is bullshit

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Guest BLAQMANTIS

yeah i train in ma, but appreciate hardcore w/ the right amt of wirework. i don't understand how hundreds and hundreds of kungfu movies have been made, but there is still aproblem with mixing good, legitimate, and official martial arts with wire work and CGI effects.

Blade of Fury best Kung Fu movie out there. I think this movie does a very good job with combining the three, plus the acting wuz good.

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Guest HungKuen

I would take Old school movies over any of this new wave crap anyday! The rytm in the fights is just wonderful!

And I've NEVER seen a new wave film that has a complex choreography as old school movies like

The Prodigal Son or KnockAbout (and I've seen alot of new wave movies)!

And because of my love for the old complicated moves, that's what I try to replicate in my films!

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Guest italdesign

I, on the other hand, will take any new wave movie over the old school crap that make me puke, especially the cheap Taiwanese ones that most people don't know about.

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